Interview: ‘Dead Talents Society’ (鬼才之道) Writer/Director John Hsu and Actress Gingle Wang Talk About the Award-Winning International Horror Hit

It’s not every day when you run into a horror movie that can be described as “wholesome,” a “joy to watch,” or “a tearjerker.”

For Taiwanese director John Hsu, he has consistently used the genre to explore deep, serious, and meaningful topics. His first feature, Detention (based on the videogame by Red Candle Games), uses the concept of ghosts and the dead to explore a historical period of oppression in Taiwan during the 1960s. In addition to being a fascinating videogame adaptation, the film also deserves admiration for bringing attention to a moment in history that not a lot of people know about.

It was no surprise to me that Hsu would return to horror again to say something worthwhile, but even I was caught off guard as to how existential, socially relevant, and heartfelt it would be.

His new film Dead Talents Society is about a lot of things. The ongoing societal pressures we face as individuals. How we feel like we must identify ourselves based on our talents and how we can contribute. How we value our lives based on our achievements. On the surface, it may come across as an East Asian spin on Beetlejuice and Monsters, Inc., but at the heart of the film lies a much deeper and moving story about self-worth. Hsu makes it clear that the film was a therapeutic journey for him, both in development and in the making.

In a similar manner that I’ve only seen in films like Everything Everywhere All At Once, Dead Talents Society has been speaking to a wide range of audience members. The film was not only the runner-up for the Midnight Madness People’s Choice Award at TIFF, but it later received a whopping 11 Golden Horse (Taiwan’s Oscars) nominations, including Best Screenplay, Best Director, and Best Picture.

I had the pleasure and joy to speak to writer/director John Hsu and lead actress Gingle Wang during my time at TIFF, the day after the film’s Midnight Madness premiere. We talked about the evolution of their approach with horror and tone after their previous collaboration with Detention, and then dived straight into the creative process and heart of Dead Talents Society, as we talked about Asian culture, how to deal with pressure, and how we see ourselves and see our worth every day. What started as handshakes in the beginning eventually became hugs at the end.

We also spoke in “broken Chinglish,” which is always a fun way to start a conversation!

Kevin L Lee: 昨天晚上, 我在 Midnight Madness 看了這部電影。(I saw the film last night at Midnight Madness)

Gingle Wang: 你中文講得很好! (Your Chinese is so good!)

KL: [laughs]

GW: 講得很好! (So good!)

KL: 因為我爸媽是從台灣來的。(It’s because my parents are from Taiwan)

John Hsu: Oh, 你也是台灣人! (Oh, you’re also Taiwanese!)

KL: 但是我是在美國出生的。所以小時候 when I go to school 學英文，回家的時候說中文。(But I was born in the US, so when I was young, when I went to school, I learned English. When I’m home, I spoke Chinese)

JH: Okay okay.

GW: Ahhh. 很厲害，很厲害。(Very good, very good)

KL: 但是回去台灣的時候，一點都沒用。 我沒辦法讀報紙。(But when I go back to Taiwan, I’m useless. I can’t read the newspaper)

JH: That’s fine.

GW: 你講的已經很好了 (You already speak so well)

JH: 你講的已經比很多台灣人都好了 (Already better than some Taiwanese people)

GW: 對! (Yeah!)

KL: So I wanna start by, uh, congratulating you both. Because 昨天晚上我在 Midnight Madness 看的真的是… 大哭  (Last night at Midnight Madness I was… sobbing)

GW: Aww.

JH: Aww. Especially because you have Asian parents.

KL: Yeah. 真的是五顆星。(Really is five stars)

JH: Oh my god.

KL: So thank you. Incredible film.

JH: Thank you.

KL: So I have a lot of questions to ask both of you.

JH: Sure! Okay.

KL: Minutes into this movie, the tone is completely different from Detention.

JH: Yes.

KL: What was the inspiration behind that? That change of tone to do comedy?

JH: Okay. That tone is actually more like my tone. Detention is more like an exception. [laughs]

KL: Oh! Well, good!

JH: Yeah, because, um, when I was making short films, my films were mostly fast paced. And I also spent about a decade making World of Warcraft viral videos for Blizzard. And uh, that kind of tone was trained by those video productions. So the whole film, Dead Talents Society, was more like my own style.

KL: What would you say was the biggest lesson you learned from Detention that you brought into Dead Talents Society?

JH: Yeah. Umm. I remember Detention because it’s such a serious film and we were not allowed to make fun of anything in the story.

GW: 他不讓我講話！[laughs] (He doesn’t let me say anything!)

JH: [laughs]

KL: Wait. 為什麼？(Why?)

GW: Because on set, there was another guy 曾敬驊 (Tseng Jing-hua). I don’t know if he has an English name. 

JH: The other young student.

KL: Oh okay.

GW: So we were really like “Oh my god, we’re making films! We are movie stars!”

JH: And at that time she was only 20.

GW: And we were, like, very excited every day. 然後每一件事情都很好玩。(And everything was so fun)

And we were playing with each other a lot. 然後有的時候他就會經過我們就說 “…shut up.” [laughs]

(And then John would walk up to us and say “…shut up”)

KL: [laughs]

JH: [laughs] You cannot have fun! You cannot have fun on set! Because it’s a serious movie!

KL: 妳有沒有玩過 Detention 的 game? (Have you ever played the game?) 

GW: Ah, 我是看人家的那個… (I watched people’s uhh…)

JH: Playthrough

GW: Uh huh.

JH: Yeah, so it’s such a serious film, it was impossible to have fun or else the whole tone will go away. But I remember there was one scene. I think it was in the early part of this story. She needs to chase down the teacher. 就是方芮欣跟著張老師在轉角，然後張老師就是離開鏡頭之後，她再過去的時候，他已經到門邊了。

(Fang Ray-shin is following Mr. Chang, and once Mr. Chang leaves the camera frame, you go over and he’s already by the door behind you)

Yeah. I remember making that scene. The behind-the-scenes was super funny. Because whenever Mr. Chang is going to, uh, leaving the frame. He needs to like [motions running] rush to the door, because we are following her character. So it’s like when she starts running, we need to go with her. So if Mr. Chang is not fast enough…

GW: [laughs]

JH: He can be seen by the camera and he’s still running!

GW: I try SO hard not to laugh about it!

JH: And that part was super funny!

GW: He’s like a runner [motions running]

JH: Because there were a lot of NG (blooper) takes. That we recorded where he’s still running, that we were like “You need to run faster!” [laughs]

KL: [laughs]

JH: So that was like super funny. And that was also part of the inspiration for Death Talents Society, that all these kinds of scary things or supernatural things are done by goofy actions.

KL: Uh Huh! 其實看 Dead Talents Society, 他們 work together to try to create one scare. (Watching Dead Talents Society, seeing how they work together)

JH: Yeah.

KL: 感覺像是 being on set. (It feels like being on set)

JH: Yes.

KL: You know, working with a crew. So everyone has a job to do, right? 

JH: Yes.

KL: And if something goes wrong, then everyone’s…

JH: Yeah. Because there’s no NG. You cannot get another take. It’s like a… live performance.

KL: Yes. Yes. Yes. Speaking of life performance, 我覺得這部電影, 我非常 relate to 的是它怎麼 explore 壓力。我覺得這些鬼必須要嚇人就很像 daily life 的壓力。(I think in this movie, I very much relate to how it explores pressure. I think these ghosts having to scare people, it feels like daily life pressure)

JH: Yes.

KL: You have to do good. You have to be…

JH: Recognized.

KL: Recognized. And you have to make achievements that other people are talking about. 

JH: You have to get trophies.

KL: Right. And so, uh, it’s incredible. [To Gingle] 我看妳演過的戲，我很少覺得妳真的在演戲。我覺得妳非常 genuine. 非常 true. Almost like 我看你的時候, you are playing yourself. Would you agree with that? 

(When I watch your films, I don’t feel like you’re acting. I think you’re so genuine and true, it’s almost like you’re playing yourself)

GW: Umm… [laughs] 我覺得這個，這個其實對我來說，我先把過去的 role 先放一邊。 對我來說，這次的 this character 我覺得會讓我很喜歡的某一個部分原因是因為我覺得他是真的很 relate to me. 但是在過去的其他的 character 裡面，大家會覺得 “好像 Gingle 好像怎麼樣”。But they are not me. 我不覺得他們是真正的我。因為我覺得 somehow 大家所看到的那些角色會覺得很像我可能是因爲…

(I think this role… let me first put aside my previous roles. To me, I liked this character a lot because I really relate to her. But in my past characters, everyone thought “That’s like Gingle.” But they are not me. I don’t think they are the real me. I think the reason why everyone thinks they’re like me is because…)

JH: It’s just on the outside.

GW: 對。可能就是比如說我在面對 press 的時候，或者是我在面對 media，或者是我在網路上面 我會給人的樣子，但是我不覺得那些是真正的我。那我會覺得我很喜歡這次的這個角色是因為… 就像… 他說的，我們在 Detention 之後其實… 我們兩個人都很不習慣…

(Yeah. Maybe it’s because of how I face the press or the media or online persona, but I don’t think those are the real me. So I think I really like this character because… just like he said about Detention… after that film we were really not used to…)

JH: 突然一下子所有人都看著我 (Suddenly having everyone watching us)

KL: Oh. 突然有 (Suddenly) that much attention.

JH: Yes. It’s like suddenly everything exploded and you’re burnt but you don’t know what caused it.

GW: 就是突然會有很多人喜歡你，但也會有很多人討厭你。(It’s that suddenly there’s a lot of people who love you, and then a lot of people who hate you)

JH: Like everyone is watching you and judging you.

KL: 現在變成 everyone, strangers 都有 an opinion of you. (It’s become that everyone, even strangers all have an opinion of you)

JH: Yes.

GW: 然後突然有非常多的 expectations 然後 under 這些 expectations 我不知道我自己是誰。所以其實有一點點像是這個角色，就像是她爸爸，就是她的 parent 給她的那個 expectation 一樣。 就是 it doesn’t mean 她的爸爸不喜歡她，或者是她的爸爸在 bully 她。

(And then suddenly there’s so many expectations, and under those expectations, I don’t know who I am. So it’s a little like this character. It’s like her father’s… her father’s expectations put on her. And it doesn’t mean her father doesn’t like her or is bullying her)

JH: 她爸爸其實對她很好。(Her father treats her very well)

GW: 他非常愛她。那我相信這些… 外面給我的 expectation 一定也是希望我可以很好。希望我可以成為一個 professional actress 等等的。可是 sometime 我不知道我要怎麼去 fulfill 大家的…

(He loves her so much. So I believe that these… expectations from the outside… there’s gotta be some hope that I can be good. Hope that I can become a real professional actress etc. But sometimes I don’t know how to go and fulfill everybody’s…)

JH: Because it’s impossible. It’s impossible to fulfill every stranger’s expectations. 

KL: Right, right.

JH: But the harm is still there. It’s still harmful to receive so many different feedback from everyone.

KL: 會很吵。(It’d be very noisy)

JH: Yes. Especially both of us are really sensitive as people.

GW: INFP. You know MBTI 嗎？

KL: Oh! Personality type!

JH: Yeah yeah. We’re both like uh… a little bit introvert. And super sensitive, counting on our sensitivity to deal with stuff. And we are not used to staying long in a crowd. We need a lot of “me time.” But at the same time, we can pretend that we are doing okay in front of everyone. It’s like a facade. It’s like a persona. So I think this character for her is more like a… we’re trying to show the persona and then get rid of it to see what it actually looks like.

KL: 我覺得這部電影裡面 ，那個女主角她跟她爸爸的那個關係然後那個壓力… I understood that. (I think in this film, that relationship she has with her father and that pressure she has…) 

JH: Mhm. Because we are Asians! [laughs]

KL: 但是我覺得很 interesting 就是… 我爸媽跟這部電影的爸爸不太一樣。(But I think it’s so interesting because… my parents are slightly different from the father in the film)

JH: 比較兇嗎？(Are they tougher?)

KL: No, 比較 open. 非常 inspire 我。但是 even though 他們 inspire 我，然後我跟他們的關係很好，我還是每天感覺到那個壓力。(No, more open. They inspire me. But even though they inspire me, and my relationship with them is great, I still feel that pressure every day)

JH: Yes! Yes.

KL: 然後我也不太了解為什麼。 為什麼每天還是有感覺到那個壓力？(And I don’t understand why. Why do I still feel that pressure every day?)

JH: Because you want to make them feel happy. It’s not like they command you to do this. Right? It’s like you want them to be happy because you know that if you are doing well, they’ll be proud of you. And that’s kind of like a blessing and also a curse. Especially for Asians.

KL: [laughs] Yes. I’m a little curious, speaking on self-worth. What are some techniques or things that you would do to help yourself deal with 壓力 (pressure) and self-worth?

GW: 我覺得我只有在演戲的時候才可以感覺到沒有壓力。(I think it’s only when I’m acting that I don’t feel any pressure)

JH: It’s like actually doing the thing.

KL: 你覺得演戲有自由的感覺? (You think acting has freedom?)

GW: Mmm. 就是我覺得最主要在演戲的時候，我不是我，我是其他人。我不需要去 responsible for anything，我就只要做別人就好了 。但如果回到自己的話，就會覺得說 “Okay 我是一個 artist” 然後就是會開始有非常非常多的聲音然後期待等等等等。 都會讓我覺得… 我好想要大家都因為我的存在而感覺到開心。其實有點像你說的，你希望的 parent 就是 feel proud of you。我希望就是包括看我的戲的觀眾也可以因為我的出現而感覺到開心。但是有的時候這些東西就會讓我自己變成一個壓力。

(It’s that I think when I’m acting, I’m not me, I’m someone else. I don’t have to be responsible for anything, I can just be somebody else and that’s enough. But if I return to being me, then I’ll think “Okay I’m an artist” and I start hearing a lot of noises and expectations etc. It’d make me think… I really want everyone to feel joy from my presence. Actually, it’s kinda like when you hope that your parents feel proud of you. I hope that even the audience watching my films can feel happy because of my appearance. But sometimes these things become a source of stress for me)

JH: Yeah it’s just kind of hard to deal with. I’m still dealing with that. In terms of my parents, my parents are exactly like the parents in Dead Talents Society. And, uh, they’re always like encouraging us to do something bigger and do something that’s going to get you an achievement or something. And make them proud. But, uh, I don’t actually blame them at all. Because like what you said, they just want us to have a better life than them.

I think that because I entered this industry like 20 years ago and I was like, almost graduated from college. And I think that, uh, all throughout this year, I was always trying to make a feature film and was trying to get into a festival. But I think it was after Detention. It’s like everything changed. I realized that I actually don’t feel happy at all after the success at the box office or at the Golden Horse Awards, all that stuff. I was so burnt out that I couldn’t feel a thing. And I kept asking myself… was that really something you were searching for? Was that really something that you are doing this for? Because if that’s so, why was I not feeling happy?

KL: Right. Why do I feel this way?

JH: Why do I feel so empty? It was like everything I’ve done for 20 years was in vain. It was such a weird feeling. But because you cannot explain that feeling to everyone else, because they will think that you already get that, that’s why you get to say this. Yeah, but, it was such a big thing to me and also a turning point. It was almost like if you are a religious person and then you finally realize God doesn’t exist.

KL: Mmm.

JH: And that was super terrifying. And I didn’t know what to… how to live after that. But during the production… during the writing for Dead Talents Society, I think there’s a catharsis. The whole process was catharsis for myself.

KL: 昨天晚上 (Last night) you described it as “therapy.”

JH: Yeah it was like self-therapy. Yeah.

GW: 比較想 (It’s more like) group therapy!

JH: Yeah. Because most of the cast, especially the five of them, are all suffering from similar situations. Even the perspective looks different because some of them have been seen for years. Some of them have never been seen. And some of them are like, been seen for a while and like gone for quite some time. So it’s like a… yeah it is like group therapy. And I think after I finished the script, I think I found how I should deal with that. I’m actually thinking about not being a director for some time.

KL: I see.

JH: Yeah. And if I can like, make sure that I can do something else just for living, and then I can make all the other creations, all the other work that I really want to do… something that’s completely separated from my career… then I can be really happy with those creations. So I wouldn’t say that I would never make a film or any kind of work again, but it’s not going to be my job. I don’t want my career to be stuck in this game that keeps searching for achievement and recognition because it’s not going to make me happy.

KL: Mhm.

JH: Yeah. I think I finally realized that throughout my life, what I’m searching for is connection. And that’s why I think the connection from Dead Talents Society with the audience feedback, whether it’s from Taiwan or here, both of them were amazing experiences for me.

KL: Yeah. The film has this appeal to Asian culture, but then last night it was shown to this international crowd. Very different, right? But, as you know, we were very loud.

JH: Yeah, it was kind of magical. Because we know that there will be cultural differences. They’re probably not familiar with Taiwanese urban legends. All those ghost figures are actually coming from famous urban legends from Taiwan. But even if they don’t understand that, they still understand the moral of the story. And I think even if they don’t have Asian parents, they will still have this kind of anxiety to be seen.

Especially in this generation, with all the social media. Everyone is looking for likes. Everyone is looking for views. And we identify ourselves with views. And so, I think that kind of anxiety is universal.

KL: How did you feel from last night’s reception?

JH: [laughs]

GW: Um… 昨天我們在一開始的時候… 片頭的時候… 然後突然所有人在 [claps] 掌聲! (Last night we were at the very start of the film, and suddenly people were like… applauding!)

JH: They’re clapping at the Sony logo! [laughs]

GW: 對! (Yes!) [laughs]

KL: [laughs]

JH: It was like… what? What?? What was it about the Sony logo??

GW: What did I miss? 我錯過了，我錯過了什麼？可是光是那個時候我就覺得很感動，就是很想很想哭。 因為我們其實已經… 在來之前我們從六月開始-

(I missed it. What did I miss? But even that little moment I felt so moved, I really really wanted to cry. Because we’ve already started doing this six months ago)

JH: Watch the film several times.

GW: 對。然後我們已經一直在做這些 interviews 然後還有很多的 Q&A 等等等等。然後我知道這是一個 great film 但是我沒有想到就連 Sony 的 logo 都可以讓大家這麼開心。

(Yeah. And we’ve already done so many interviews and Q&As etc. And I know this is a great film, but I never expected that even a Sony logo could get people this happy)

JH: And the opening sequence! The title was shown and…

GW: Ahh! People were like “Woohoo!”

JH: Yeah, they were really happy. Really enjoying it.

GW: Or were they just high?

KL: [laughs]

JH: Yeah, or they were just high. We were actually talking about it. That’s one of the possibilities.

GW: [laughs] Maybe!

JH: Because they’re laughing all the time and sometimes it’s not even funny.

GW: But it’s okay.

KL: 有一些 (There are some) festivals where the crowd is so open. They laugh at everything. 我覺得這個 (I think this) Toronto Midnight Madness is the perfect place for this movie to be shown.

JH: It is. Yes.

GW: 但我覺得很棒的就是雖然我們有不同的語言，不同的 culture，但是覺得我們這部電影想說的emotions 是沒有這些問題的，是 universal 的。就連我們剛剛在來的路上都有一個 volunteer 跟我們分享她自己的經驗， and she’s not even Asian。她是一個白人。然後就是她也曾經 suffer 過就是來自她的家人給她的期待。

(But I think what’s so awesome is that even though we speak different languages and have different cultures, I think the emotions and stuff that this movie wants to say don’t have that issue. They’re universal. While we were on the way here, there was a volunteer who told us about her own experience with us, and she’s not even Asian. She’s a white person. And she also suffered from the expectations given to her by her family)

JH: 然後她講她就哭了。(And then she started crying)

KL: Ohh. Mmm.

JH: 然後她就很感謝我們這部電影給了她一個很大的安慰。(And then she thanked us for this movie giving her great comfort)

GW: 在這個時候我就會覺得我還真的很喜歡演戲。(It’s times like these where I feel that I still really love acting)

KL: It makes me feel that everyone who made this went through this similar struggle.

JH: Yes, exactly.

KL: But you have to have overcome it in some way in order to have the story be this way. Does that make sense?

JH: Yes. Completely. Even now. Because we released the film in Taiwan in early August. And right now it’s about a month, and the box office is still a little bit struggling. But even then, the cast and the production team and the press team, the distribution team… they’re still running just like the third act. Like they’re running for pretty much no reason. Because you know, 台灣反正就是市場就是這麼小。(The Taiwanese market really is that small) So it’s really hard to make something that’s this unique to the market, in terms of genre, and make it a huge success. But even then they were still running just for themselves and just for more people to be comforted by the story. I think that’s kind of touching to me.

KL: I know that my family would love this. Especially because 我有些 family member 很愛看恐怖電影。 然後也很愛看喜劇，因為我從小長到大看那種什麼 late night talk shows.

(I have some family members who love watching horror movies. And they love comedy too, since I grew up watching those late night talk shows)

JH: Yeah yeah yeah!

KL: 小時候我都不知道他們在講什麼，但是因為我爸媽一直在笑我跟著笑。 So 我覺得這部電影是有那個 silliness 有一點無厘頭。 

(When I was little, I didn’t know what they were talking about, but because my parents laughed a lot, I would laugh along. So I think the film has that silly nonsense to it)

You mentioned the culture in the film. For me 是看每個 character 的脾氣，他們的態度我覺得 “Wow that’s so relatable.”

(It’s seeing those characters’ temperaments and personalities)

JH: So Taiwanese. [laughs] Yeah, we make sure that every character in this film is well developed. When we were developing the script, I would talk to each one of the main cast about the character and make sure that it’s going to be more like a real person.

KL: 我真的覺得這部電影會 (I really think this movie would) inspire a whole new generation of filmmakers who want to tell their own story. What would you like to say to them?

JH: To the new generation of Taiwanese filmmakers?

GW: Taiwanese? 哇。(Wow)

JH: Don’t do it. [laughs]

GW: [laughs]

KL: [laughs] 我有聽過說台灣的 industry 很小。 (I have heard the Taiwanese film industry is small)

JH: Yeah. The situation is like, our market is super small. So if you are like, trying to make bigger films, not necessarily bigger like Hollywood level, but more like in indie production. But in Taiwan, even that range of budget is hard to get the revenue back. So it’s, uh, kind of tricky if you want to make it your career.

But um, I think the thing is we’re now, uh, experiencing some kind of change within the industry that the newer generation is coming up. Newer producers, newer directors, newer team. And they have a new philosophy that’s going to, uh, impact the original industry. But it is going to take some time. I think it’s going to take, uh, about three to five years. 

KL: Huh, not long.

JH: Yeah. Not long. Not long at all. I think it’s gradually changing. For example, uh, my previous production was a TV movie. And for the crew, I think the average age was under 30.

KL: Oh, that’s great!

JH: Yeah. And I… the… the vibe of the whole thing was completely different. Because I’m not a guy who enjoys being on set. It’s weird that we chose this as our career because I’m not… I’m not comfortable being surrounded by so many people!

KL: Producing 壓力很大。 (A lot of pressure) So many problems that you have to solve and you have to solve them before the rest of the cast and crew learn that there’s a problem.

JH: Yes.

KL: 然後 on set as a director 的時候有不一樣的壓力。 (And then as a director, it’s a different kind of pressure) You have a bunch of people asking you questions.

GW: [laughs]

JH: Yeah, and when they are unable to solve the problem, you’ll need to change your method. Work around.

KL: Right. You come into set and you’re like, “What do I not have today?”

JH: Yes! Give me more bad news! Yeah. But like what I said, when the crew is getting younger, they are doing things completely differently. Because the traditional Taiwanese industry was like… there are a lot of senior workers that uh… they don’t like to be challenged. Sometimes they’re just giving out commands to their assistants and making them do things. So it’s not really good in terms of communication. Because there are too many different classes in the whole production team.

But when I was making that TV movie, I think that the newer generation, the young kids like her [motions to Gingle]. She’s like super comfortable talking to people from different ages and different experiences.

And I also like that kind of communication as well. So I think that if we can all communicate equally, we can actually solve problems. That’s kind of important. So I think uh, if there’s any advice for them, it’s don’t be afraid to communicate. Don’t be afraid to challenge older people [laughs] ‘Cause maybe, maybe they don’t understand what they’re doing.

KL: [to Gingle] 妳呢？ 妳有沒有 any advice? (How about you? Do you have any advice?)

GW: 因為我畢竟我不是導演，我了解的沒有這麼多，但是如果是說想要來做演員的話，我覺得… 我覺得只要你知道這一路上會有非常多的人喜歡你、不喜歡你，然後討厭你的、愛你的都會有，但是只要這些東西不影響你正在做的事情，就繼續做吧。

(Because, after all, I am not a director, I don’t know that much on that front. But if you want to be an actor, I think… I think as long as you know that there will be many people who like you or not like you along the way. That there will be those who hate you and those who love you. As long as these things don’t affect what you are doing, just keep doing it)

JH: 我覺得就像這部電影談到的一樣，就是有要先建立的自我價值其實蠻重要的。 (I think it’s like what the movie says. It’s actually quite important to establish self-worth first)

You have to recognize yourself.

KL: It’s like how Makoto says it in the film. The best part of being dead is you don’t have to worry about what other people think of you. Well, don’t wait until you’re dead to learn that.

JH: Of course. Of course.

KL: Yeah. Alright, I want to end with a light question. 如果你必須要選一個的話， 你會想當鬼還是吸血鬼還是殭屍？ (If you have to choose, would you be a ghost or a vampire or a zombie?)

GW: Ahhhh. 我要當吸血鬼。(I wanna be a vampire)

JH: 為什麼 (Why?)

GW: 因為白天都可以睡覺。(So I can sleep during the day) [laughs]

KL: [laughs]

JH: [laughs]

GW: 因為我現在有時差! (Because right now I have jet lag!) [laughs]

JH: I don’t need to be a vampire to do that! I do that every day! [laughs] I think if I got to choose, I kind of want to just perish. I’ve been here long enough!

KL: 你們有沒有看過一個恐怖喜劇，在台灣叫做 “暫時停止呼吸”？(Have you ever seen that horror comedy called Mr. Vampire?)

JH: 有! 我還記得那個主題曲!  [hums it aloud] (Yes! I still remember that theme song!)

KL: 對! 對! 我是會想當那部電影裡面的殭屍，因為它會跳。(Yes! Yes! I would be that zombie in that movie, because he can hop)

GW: 是港片嗎? 喔,那我知道那個! (Is it a Hong Kong film? Oh! Then I know that one!)

KL: 動作其實跟妳在 Dead Talents Society 裡面一樣。 這樣子 [lifts arms up] 只是它會跳! (He moves kinda like you in Dead Talents Society, with your arms up like this. Except he can hop)

JH: 對，他是直的。那你要當那個? (Yeah, he’s flat and straight. You wanna be like that?)

KL: 如果我選的話我會當那個。(If I choose, I’d be that)

JH: 但那感覺很難移動 [laughs] (That feels so hard to move)

KL: [laughs] Alright. Well, uh, thank you so much for taking the time.

JH: Thank you for the questions.

KL: Again, I love your movie.

GW: Thank you.

JH: Thank you. That meant a lot.

KL: I think it is such an achievement. And I think you should both be very proud.

JH: We are! Thank you!

GW: Thank you!

After we were done, the PR representative walked over and thanked me for the review I wrote, which then led to Hsu asking me which outlet I wrote the review on.

When I said “AwardsWatch,” Hsu responded with, “Oh! I read it! 好感動! (so moving) That was you??”

And there was a realization, that he just spent the last 30 minutes talking to the person who wrote something that touched him. He then quickly got up from the couch. “I have to hug you,” he said. Gingle quickly followed after with a hug of her own. It felt no different from the characters near the end of Dead Talents Society, embracing each other.