Interview: ‘Expats’ Creator Lulu Wang on Landing Nicole Kidman, Hong Kong as a Character and Telling Stories Through Compassion
In the realm of television, Prime Video’s Expats emerges as a promising contender for this year’s awards season, boasting a stellar cast led by luminaries like Nicole Kidman and helmed by the talented writer/director Lulu Wang.
Fresh from the triumph of her Spirit Award and Golden Globe Award-winning debut film, The Farewell, which poignantly and humorously depicted her grandmother’s battle with cancer, Wang ventures into yet another compelling narrative, this time tackling the haunting tale of a missing child and delving into the intricate tapestry of human experience against the backdrop of Hong Kong’s expatriate community in 2014.
In our converstion, Wang shared insights into the genesis of the six-episode limited series Expats (based on Janice Y.K. Lee’s novel “The Expatriates”) and the collaborative process that brought the series to fruition. Reflecting on her initial conversation with Nicole Kidman, Wang recalled the surreal moment when she received the call expressing interest in her vision for the project. With Kidman’s unwavering support and enthusiasm for the material, Wang found herself propelled into the role of first-time showrunner, tasked with translating the complexities of the expat experience onto the screen.
Reflecting on the collaboration, Wang credits Kidman for “streamlining” her transition into the role of showrunner for Expats, which was filmed against the vibrant backdrop of Hong Kong. For Wang, filming in Hong Kong was not merely a logistical choice but a deliberate narrative decision. She views the city as “a character in its own right” with its journey and arc. Highlighting the significance of continuity and camaraderie, Wang emphasizes her decision to bring aboard the crew from The Farewell to work on this project, underscoring the importance of trust and familiarity in creative endeavors.
Acknowledging the delicate dance between artistic expression and political realities, Wang reveals the strategic negotiations involved in navigating Hong Kong’s socio-political landscape. From subtly incorporating elements of the Umbrella Movement to navigating the tightening grip of sedition laws during filming, Expats emerges as a nuanced exploration of both personal and political upheaval.
Landon Johnson: This is beautiful show. Thank you so much for making it. What was it like coming off The Farewell and then going to Amazon and them saying, “Here’s a budget, go make us a show.” (laughs)
Lulu Wang: (laughs) Yeah, I mean, it wasn’t that simple, but almost. I think just having the support of Nicole Kidman, of course, made it a lot simpler and more streamlined in that they really love this material and the world, and it was just a matter of having a vision behind it. And so, for me, it was like I had to say to them, it’s really important for me to bring my team from “The Farewell.” It’s really important to me that I can fill the writers’ room with the writers whose perspectives are necessary for this world because it is a world of so many different types of people, and I wanted to make sure that I could have a really authentic perspective in the writers’ room to speak to each of these perspectives as opposed to me just guessing and then that I would be able to cast it the way that I wanted to cast it, and then ultimately that we could shoot it in Hong Kong. That was really important because I think Hong Kong is a character in its own right and has its own journey and arc. And so those were the things that I laid out for Amazon, and luckily, they supported it and then we were off to the races.
LJ: Hong Kong is a character in and of itself, and I love that you said it there because I was an expat in Hong Kong in 2013 and it’s changed a lot since I left, and it’s kind of sad to see. What was the reception of the Hong Kong citizens, Americans and Amazon coming over there making this story about rich expats in Central?
LW: It’s funny, I was talking to some other showrunners yesterday and it’s like this is a new thing, I guess, is that every time you make something now you have to look at the internet and the reaction from before you’ve even done anything, there’s a cynicism. And of course I understand, I would be really protective too of anything Hollywood and American. So yes, there was a huge outcry of we don’t need Amazon and Americans coming over to make a show about rich white people when the city is going through huge changes and there have been these huge political movements and a lot of Hong Kongers are leaving, so I totally understood that. The funny thing, not funny, I guess, but the ironic thing is that I had to let them believe that we were making a show about privileged white people in order to get in there to make the show with the support of the government in order to then put in the Umbrella Movement and these political aspects of the show. That was something that was important to me from the beginning. And as we started moving through prep and going to Hong Kong, the laws got stricter. They had the sedition laws and people were getting arrested, so there was a lot of fear that we wouldn’t be able to tell the story, and so I couldn’t let on what we were trying to do and in a way, pretending that it was this like show about rich people and glitz and glamour was the Trojan horse to allow us to tackle this other thing because also who’s going to allow me on a global scale to tell a story about Hong Kong and the political movement and the Filipino workers, or not just Filipino, but all of the foreign domestic workers, all of these women from Southeast Asia who work in Hong Kong, supporting the lives of wealthy locals as well as expats. All of those things were Trojan horse in by this like glitz and glamour show about expats and starring Nicole. And I’m just grateful that Nicole was so on board to use her clout to allow me to create this world.
LJ: Tell me about the phone call from Nicole Kidman that was kind of the genesis that launched this.
LW: She had optioned the book and told me she’d seen The Farewell and that I was the director for this. And it is one of those things that is so surreal that you have to ask if it’s actually real. I don’t know. I think there was a level of like, “Okay, it’s Nicole Kidman for God’s sakes. I’ve just made this tiny movie, so what’s the catch?” And so, there was a trepidation that I had of working with this global movie star on a global series. And it’s funny, because we know each other now, and so I think she understands me better, but Nicole is just like, she comes in with such excitement that it’s contagious. And even throughout the editing process, she’d be like, “Is the show good? Is it good, Lulu? It’s really good, right?” And I’d be like, “Yeah, we’ll see.” She’s like, “What’s wrong?” I think that I’m just like I have to have that reservation in the beginning to assess because I’ve been known too much to jump in feet first and then be like, “Oh my God, I’ve gotten myself in too deep.” So, she sensed my hesitation, and she was like, “Let me take you to dinner. Let’s talk about it some more. What is going to get you to do this?” And it was really through getting to know each other more and having more conversations, honest conversations about her family, my family, about women, about her mother, about my mother, about my grandmother, that we decided together that it was a show about women of all kinds and the sacrifices of women, the love between women, the jealousy between women, all of that and her total support in letting me staff the room and cast and bring my team. It just felt like an undeniable opportunity.
LJ: But then also, because she had seen The Farewell requested that you make it funny. “Hey, you made cancer funny, you can make a missing child funny,” I believe Kidman said. Can you talk about adding the comedic layer in there? Because there are so many parts, especially with Nicole talking with the other housewives there and the other expats when they’re dancing in the restaurant and they’re just being honest, that raw honesty that makes the show so refreshing. Talk a little bit about that comedic layer that you were able to balance that because I feel like you are an expert chemist when it comes to this balancing act is you are just impeccable at doing that.
LW: Oh, thank you. Yeah, I mean, Nicole did say, “No pressure, but yeah, I really want you to make this funny because people need to be able to laugh in order to really release and cry,” which I agree with. But of course, this is a very challenging one to make funny, and I think a lot of the humor just comes from how relatable these situations are and how just these subtle tonal shifts, the juxtaposition of these three women and then all of these other women as well. The layers of women and perspective. Yeah, I’m not sure how else we navigated it. I mean, I think the character of David lends itself to humor. There’re certain characters like Hilary and her mother, that relationship is both sad and triggering and also quite funny because there’s a brutal honesty there from Brinder [played by Sudha Bhuchar]. David lends himself because he’s so easily written as a character to hate, but as you get to know him, there’s something kind of pathetic and sad about his ineptitude, like his inability, and you understand his trauma and you just kind of feel sorry for him. I think that there’s humor in that, not that we’re laughing at him, but that we’re laughing with him because it’s just deeply human-like his weaknesses.
So just going moment to moment. And Nicole as well, she was like, “Look, I don’t want this to be a cold show.” So often you do a crime drama, it can feel really atmospheric, but very cold and distant. And so, we talked a lot about the warmth between her and Brian and family and these kids and just feeling really lived in and really real as well as with Essie.
LJ: And that’s just a testament to your authenticity and perhaps that’s the key balancing factor: just being very authentic in these characters so we can all relate to them. What is one thing that you would like viewers and audiences, given the copious amounts of perspectives, the culture that’s being given to them here, what’s one thing you’d like audiences to take away from Expats?
LW: I think that I want them to take away a sense of hope and resilience and the understanding that all of us are human beings and we have the capacity to be as fragile as we are strong, and that life is incredibly fragile, but that we are also incredibly strong, and we can surprise ourselves with what we’re able to handle. And regardless of where you are in life, whether you’ve been through grief and loss or that’s yet to come, it hits all of us. As Margaret says, “Who do we think we are, any of us, to think that we’re immune to tragedy?” Or to life, right? And so that’s what I want people to walk away with is just the sense of hope and grace for themselves to get through whatever that life throws at them, and also compassion for other people because you just don’t know what wounds people are walking around with and to just be gentle with each other.
LJ: I like that. Thank you so much, Lulu. We look forward to seeing what’s next. And thank you so much for taking the time to speak with me today.
LW: Yeah, anytime. I appreciate you guys and so thank you.
Expats is now streaming on Prime Video.
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