Interview: Isabella Rossellini on the Power of Sister Agnes in ‘Conclave’ and Returning to her Cinematic Roots
Recently, legendary actress Isabella Rossellini attended the Ara Pacis Museum, where she visited an exhibition on acting in Ancient Rome that she documented on her Instagram account (I highly recommend following along on her adventures there if you’re not already). The series of photos depicts various highly emotive masks worn thousands of years ago and, notably, a fun snapshot of Rossellini imitating one of their expressions. That’s Rossellini in a nutshell: an avid learner, a warm presence with a fun sense of humor, and someone ready to share the connections between the past and the present with filmgoers everywhere. In the history of the discipline, words aren’t always necessary to elicit a response from the audience, and for Rossellini, acting has always been about illustrating your emotions from within.
Born to two icons of the film industry–Italian neorealist pioneer Roberto Rossellini and Old Hollywood film star Ingrid Bergman–Isabella Rossellini was naturally exposed to the film industry at an early age, taking trips to set as a child (she revisited the legendary Cinecittà for Conclave) and experimenting with a plethora of industry-adjacent careers such as costume design and modeling as the face of Lancôme before becoming an actress. Rossellini’s true breakthrough, and perhaps the role she’s best known for, came with David Lynch’s controversial masterpiece, Blue Velvet. Despite some critics and naysayers’ dismissal and misunderstanding of the role and Rossellini’s performance (Rossellini’s then-agent dropped her after the film’s release), she stuck with acting, proving that she has a presence and talent of her own and the openness to taking risky roles that she believes in. It’s not that Rossellini wants to separate herself from her family’s legacy, though. In fact, it’s quite the opposite. When asked about her childhood in Rome, her parents’ influence on her work, or her choices as an actor, she lights up and openly shares just how essential they were and are for her and her own legacy.
Despite her long career filled with audacious choices, Rossellini has never received an Oscar nomination. That could change this year with Conclave, Edward Berger’s follow-up to his Academy Award-winning film, All Quiet on the Western Front. In Berger’s star-studded papal thriller, Rossellini stars as Sister Agnes, a quiet yet powerful force inside the walls of The Vatican. Early in the film, Sister Agnes is a stoic, watchful presence and a leader of the sisters who serve the men trying to elect the new Pope. It’s in these silent moments that I recalled Rossellini’s modeling career and her ability to communicate any emotion with just one look. There’s a single moment in the film, though, that’s inspired applause: when Sister Agnes finally confronts the conclave and curtsies. Rossellini’s role may be small, but she fills it with some of the film’s most memorable moments.
In my recent conversation with Rossellini, she was kind enough to speak about her family’s connection to cinema history and why returning to Rome to shoot Conclave was so meaningful to her. We also talked extensively about her career, the power she found in Sister Agnes, and how she’s introducing a new generation to classic cinema.
Sophia Ciminello: You’ve really had a great year, and I know a lot of audiences are also discovering La Chimera. Alice (Rohrwacher) is one of my favorites, and that film moved me so much, especially the way she thinks about the afterlife and the beyond.
IR: Oh, thank you. Me too. I think she’s a major, major talent and I’m looking forward to seeing more of her work. And even just being in Italy for these films. I grew up in Italy until I was 19, and then I went to America. Italy has changed a lot between then and now at 72. It became a land of many people–many languages, many religions, and she mixes that so beautifully. And yet, there is also the past and present haunting us. And the idea that the present and the past blend is fantastic. You know my father’s genre was neorealism and someone said Alice is “magical neorealism.” (Laughs)
SC: Oh, that’s perfect for her.
IR: It is, and I love that definition because magical realism, of course, is with Gabriel Garcia Marquez and many Latin American writers, but she’s neorealism with the fantasy and the poetic magic.
SC: I’m glad you brought up your father because I wanted to ask if you had an early childhood trip to the cinema that inspired you. I’m sure you had plenty in your family.
IR: Oh, yes! I was always on set with my parents or at the theater. My father, Roberto Rossellini, was a filmmaker, of course and my mother was Ingrid Bergman, so I grew up on film sets. I don’t remember the first time I went to see a film, but my father was always editing films at home and I started to see the process of editing, music, acting, and memorizing words. I remember my Mamma repeating and repeating words to memorize them. She also did theater, and if she was in, let’s say, England, we could not speak any other language other than English. If we were in France, we would speak French; otherwise, she could have switched languages without realizing it. I remember all of the effort for Mamma to stay concentrated and in character. I really grew up around films.
SC: That’s such a great story about your mother and her relationship with acting because I know you came to it a bit later when you were in A Matter of Time together. I realized you also played a nun in that film, so you’re really coming full circle with Conclave. What made you want to become an actress?
IR: So that film we did together was with Vincente Minnelli. Liza had just won the Oscar and wanted so much to work with her dad, who was quite old at the time. I don’t think he had many films that he was asked to do at that time, so finally, Liza made A Matter of Time and she and my mom both had major roles. Mamma was delighted that it was shot in Rome, where me and my sisters and my brothers were raised. She loved acting, and so she wanted very much for one of us to become an actor, but we were all so intimidated (laughs)!
SC: (Laughs) I’m sure!
IR: (Laughs) We really were, but Mamma really encouraged me to take that small, small role–it’s almost like an extra–just to have a taste of what it was to be on set and in costume. I didn’t like it the first time, partially because the producer had so many paparazzi come to the set and photograph us to try to promote it. I felt very judged and intimidated, and instead of them giving me room to love it, I felt like I was observed and judged and thought, “Oh no, no, I can’t be an actress.” Then the next film that I made was with the Taviani Brothers and was called The Meadow. They were super talented and offered me a role, and Mamma said, “It’s ridiculous to say no. You have to work with talent. You don’t have to be an actress, but you can just try it.” She said that the Taviani Brothers were following my father’s tradition, often working with non-actors and making them feel like actors. I didn’t have to commit to being an actress, but I could try it. She didn’t want the fact that I was her daughter to prevent me from having an incredible adventure and getting to work with talent. So, I did it, and both Mamma and I were right. It was a fantastic experience, but I got very bad reviews. (Laughs).
SC: (Laughs) I’m glad you found your way back to it. Is this when your modeling career took off?
IR: Exactly. So, I did not continue to be an actress and eventually became a model, and many models evolved to become actresses. I remember Richard Avedon saying to me, “You know, modeling is a little bit like being a silent movie star. You don’t have words, but you have to show emotions. I’m not photographing a beautiful nose. I’m photographing emotions.” So little by little, I thought, well, maybe I should try. So, then I made White Knights, followed by Blue Velvet. I shot Blue Velvet even before White Knights came out, so Blue Velvet was really my breakthrough. It was very controversial when it came out, so it was very difficult that way. But people loved the film and loved my performance, so I had some praise. I had some ups and downs, but I continued to work.
SC: I thought about your modeling career a bit when I was watching you as Sister Agnes in Conclave. Your character doesn’t have many lines, but you’re so effective at communicating exactly what she’s thinking. Did you find yourself approaching the character in a similar way?
IR: Yes, it’s exactly that idea of modeling being like a silent movie star. I thought about the role and I thought of how challenging and wonderful it would be to play a role where the person has great authority, is stoic, and yet, doesn’t have any words. When she speaks, it’s very brief, but it’s very cutting. I thought it was a marvelous role and I spoke in depth with Edward about that silent presence. I didn’t test for the film. It was just offered to me and Edward flattered me by saying that he wanted to hire me because I’m so charismatic. (Laughs). I don’t know if I am. I am who I am, but he flattered me. I know that I can have that silent presence from modeling, and I also knew it from life. You know, I grew up in Italy and went to a school with nuns. I know they didn’t speak much, but they had authority. So that was a big inspiration, as well.
SC: Oh, that makes sense too. In Italy, whether you’re a practicing Catholic or not, the influence of the Church is really just baked into the schooling and the culture.
IR: Yeah, exactly. Culturally, I’m Catholic. There is no doubt about it. My grandfather was very religious and went to church every Sunday and so was my aunt, who was very close to my father. My mother was Swedish and Protestant, and my father was Italian and Catholic. They didn’t go to church, but they were very respectful of the religion. And going to school with the nuns meant that I went to Church, and it was all around me. But now, I’m not a churchgoer. I’m a lot like my parents, where I’m respectful of religion, but I have doubts. (laughs).
SC: (Laughs) I think that’s very relatable. Conclave has had such a positive reception so far. What about the film struck you when you first spoke with Edward?
**Rossellini’s response includes spoilers for the ending of Conclave**
IR: I think for all of us, it was that speech that Ralph Fiennes’ character gives at the beginning of the film about the evil of certitude and the goodness of doubt. It was what made all of us want to do the film and it was very moving to us to have an order to doubt. We’re constantly asked to have certitude and give answers, yes, no, black, white, when inside, really, we don’t know because we’re human.
The film was all about this certitude. Should it be a conservative? Should it be a liberal? It’s a political fight. Some cardinals fall because of personal ambition like John Lithgow’s character. Some are punished for a sin they had committed when they were younger. Is it really honorable? Everything leaves you with doubt and then there’s an enormous surprise at the end. The most Christlike character, the one that everybody finally elects because it’s the character that’s the most spiritual, the one who helped the poor, who was in the most difficult situation in the war, is elected Pope.
But there is that mystery about him and that mystery about gender plagues and liberates our society today. Over 1% of the population is Intersex. I’m 72 years old, and I have just started learning about this now. It makes me think, this is something we should talk about. You know, a baby who is assigned a particular gender at birth. Maybe it’s not only physical. We have never really analyzed this, but we can do it with open-mindedness. The film doesn’t really do that, but it does deal with doubt. It ends with doubt, which is a great debate in our society.
SC: It really is such an important conversation to have. Doubt is a recurring theme in Catholic teaching, too. Cardinal Lawrence has that line where he says that there is no faith without doubt.
IR: Yes, that’s a great moment isn’t it?
SC: It is. I want to talk about your big scene in the movie when you say that the nuns may be invisible, but God has given you eyes and ears.
IR: Oh, I love that line.
SC: How did you feel performing that scene after everything your character has silently witnessed?
IR: Well, you know, that scene, and exactly that line, “I know my role is to be invisible, but nevertheless, God has given me eyes and ears,” was the key to how I played the role. My character was never distracted or passive; she was always incredibly alert, listening and looking at everything with her eyes and ears. Yet, she was invisible. It was like a shadow everywhere, never asserting herself until she was confronted with a lie. She denounces it, and then she does that little bow as she goes back.
SC: People clapped in my theater when you did that, by that way.
IR: (Laughs) I love it. I thought it was very powerful. Of course, I was very nervous because I had 120 men or Cardinals–the stars and also the crew. The director is a man. The cinematographer is a man. My heart was pounding. But then I thought, how do I calm down and have authority? And I said, no, Sister Agnes would have felt exactly the same way. Her heart would beat very fast. Still, I used my personal emotion as Isabella, afraid to speak in front of all of them and I really felt that in spite of being nervous, she finds the stamina and the strength to denounce them. So, it was only helpful to be nervous.
SC: Well, and I think there’s such a beautiful, quiet camaraderie between the sisters in the film. The Cardinals are all going at it, fighting each other and plotting. Meanwhile, you see the sisters defending and helping each other.
IR: Yes, the film ends with that beautiful moment where you hear them giggle and the novice comes out and they’re very friendly and you see their sisterhood and camaraderie in that way. I mean, maybe the film is feminist. The way I play Sister Agnes as a very strong woman within a patriarchal society. And the film has a quality, a sort of feminist quality, of doubting the machismo and that certitude.
SC: This might sound strange, but I started to think about your role in Blue Velvet as the inverse of your role in Conclave. You have these two women, Dorothy Vallens and Sister Agnes, who are not at all what they seem on the surface.
IR: Oh yes! No, that’s right. In Blue Velvet, the character of Dorothy Vallens is a singer and a performer, but she’s completely crumbling on the inside. She’s an abused woman and completely broken. Sister Agnes doesn’t speak; she’s a nun, and yet, she’s completely strong. This is the pleasure of being an actor because you can really have an adventure and play these different types of women. It’s happened to me, too, to be strong sometimes and to be crumbling at others. So, you start from your own experience and then you create a character like Dorothy Vallens or Sister Agnes, but this is why it’s such a great adventure to be an actor.
SC: And reflecting on your career now, do you see traces of your parents in your work or in your choices as an actor or filmmaker?
IR: Not so much in my style, but definitely in some of my choices. Sometimes, people say to me, “Well, why did you work with Guy Maddin or David Lynch before they were known?” And I think, well, I think it’s because my father was the ultimate experimental filmmaker. If you think of my mom, she was the number one star in Hollywood and she saw my father’s work and said, I’m going to work with you. And then they fell in love. She took a lot of initiative. So, I think rather than to say, you know, I made this film because there was a direct connection to them, it was really because of that sense of adventure and using film to try to understand life and psychological characteristics and different people. I think I saw that in my family and I’m continuing it.
SC: And you’re passing that love of adventurous film on too. I read that you’ve rented out a cinema to screen Chaplin films for children. Have you learned anything from showing his films to kids that you didn’t expect?
IR: Yes! I realized that a lot of children don’t see silent films unless they are children of filmmakers. I live about 60 miles from New York City on a farm. Last year (and I’m going to do it again in January when it’s cold and everybody is a little sad at home), I rented a local art house and I did four Chaplin films and I invited children to see them. I have four grandchildren–one is eight months old, so he’s too little, but two of them are three and seven, so I invited all of their friends from school and their parents to come see Chaplin. And you know, some of the parents had never seen Charlie Chaplin and the children; I had tears in my eyes! There were three-year-old children who saw a black-and-white film with no words, and they laughed! I said, “Oh my God, I hope Chaplin can see this.” There’s a film that’s 100 years old, and we’re still reacting to his talent in the same way. And this year, I have Donald Sulzen, a great pianist who specializes in silent film, coming in January to show the children and their families how the films were first seen. It’s fantastic!
SC: Oh, that’s wonderful! Thank you so much, Isabella. I really enjoyed speaking with you.
IR: Me too, so much. Thank you.
Conclave is currently in theaters from Focus Features.
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