Interview: Renate Reinsve on Collaborating with Joachim Trier to Create a Family Portrait in ‘Sentimental Value’
Joachim Trier’s latest film, Sentimental Value, begins with the feeling of a fairy tale, as a narrator recalls a time when our protagonist, Nora Borg (Renate Reinsve), was a young girl and decided to write an essay personifying her family’s Victorian home. The house listened to everything, from the happiest and darkest moments of her ancestors to the way she shielded her sister Agnes from the loud quarreling between their parents. Much like that home, Nora absorbed that joy and grief, carrying it with her into adulthood. That balance, between humorous and melancholic, hopeful and painful, is what makes Sentimental Value one of the year’s best films and Renate Reinsve’s intricately detailed performance a masterful balancing act.
After growing up in the tiny Norwegian village of Solbergelva, Reinsve got her start acting at Trøndelag Teater, the oldest operating stage in Scandinavia. After performing in several plays, she made her film debut with a small role in Trier’s Oslo, August 31st, establishing an artistic partnership that would lead to two of her career-defining roles. I first saw Reinsve at Cannes at an early morning screening of Trier’s final film in his Oslo Trilogy, The Worst Person in the World. In the film, she plays Julie, a woman on the precipice of her thirties who doesn’t quite know who she is yet. Even though I had never seen her before, there was something about her that made me feel like I knew her and that I inherently understood the character she was portraying. (As a woman whose thirtieth birthday was also rapidly approaching at the time, this naturally hit me very hard.) With The Worst Person in the World, Reinsve and Trier created a new style of romantic comedy and coming-of-age heroine, earning her the Cannes Best Actress prize, a BAFTA nomination for Best Actress, and a new fanbase of cinephiles around the world.
The reunion of Reinsve and Trier was a major part of why Sentimental Value was so hotly anticipated when it hit the Croisette in May. As Reinsve and I discussed in our conversation earlier this month, there is a natural link between these two stories and characters, and she and Trier started thinking about Nora as they were still uncovering pieces of Julie during the making of The Worst Person in the World. Sentimental Value is a much different piece of filmmaking, though, as Trier tackles the complex family dynamics present in a family of artists who simply aren’t able to communicate. This is especially tricky for Nora and her estranged father Gustav (Stellan Skarsgård) when he gives her the script of a movie he’s written for her. In addition to exploring that father-daughter relationship, this is also a film about the link between sisters, actors and directors, and the personal relationship between a work of art and its artist. Reinsve delivers a remarkable performance, and in my review of the film out of Cannes, I noted that she “imbues Nora with an even richer, deeper sense of loneliness…She isn’t flailing because she isn’t sure what she wants; she’s struggling to confront who she is and to find her own identity.”
In watching the film, I couldn’t quite pinpoint at first why this performance and those aspects of the character felt so familiar and why I warmed to her so quickly. After the tears following the climactic conclusion subsided, I realized that she reminded me of a character that a young Diane Keaton would’ve played. Much like Keaton did, Reinsve brilliantly balances the character’s humor and sadness, imbuing Nora with a quiet bravery amidst her insecurities. That became even clearer in our conversation, as Reinsve spoke thoughtfully about the detail that went into creating Nora, what she felt she had to bring out in her to make her authentic, and the magic of collaborating with Joachim Trier. In a recent interview with The Hollywood Reporter, her Sentimental Value co-star Inga Ibsdotter Lilleaas spoke about what Reinsve’s success and the way that she has stretched herself into American film and television (A Different Man, Presumed Innocent) has meant for fellow Norwegians. Now, in Sentimental Value, Reinsve continues to pave the way, feeling primed for her first Academy Award nomination and eventual household name status.
This interview contains spoilers for Sentimental Value.
Sophia Ciminello: Hi Renate, it’s so nice to see you again.
Renate Reinsve: Hi Sophia, I’m excited to see you again too.
SC: I have to tell you that I was so happy when I heard that you were working with Joachim Trier again.
RR: Yeah, it’s been fantastic and…oh, you didn’t ask me a question yet! I already just started talking to you (laughs).
SC: (Laughs) That’s okay. I wanted to start there, actually, with that collaboration…
RR: (Laughs) Okay, perfect.
SC: When I watched Sentimental Value, it really felt like the spiritual older sister film to The Worst Person in the World. Julie and Nora are in different stages of their lives, but they feel connected. Were there things that you had experienced in your own life that you brought to your understanding of these two women?
RR: Yeah, absolutely. And it’s not that it’s fully me, either of them, but in working with Joachim, it becomes a very personal relationship to the character. And it’s not necessarily that it’s based off of something that is directly me or it’s something that I’ve experienced directly, but he wrote these two characters for me. With The Worst Person in the World, he wanted to explore a character that had a range of being really light and going to something more melancholic. So, that was kind of the base for what he wanted to explore in person, and he told me that he knew I had that range as an actress from working together before. And then for going through that process and production, we also started to kind of–it was a game really–like playing around with what Julie could be and versions of her that could exist, like an emotionally heavy version of her. That had no room in that movie because she was a light, more naive character.
SC: Yeah, and he plays so well with time and how these characters feel at these different transition points.
RR: Yeah, exactly, and I think when he started, he wanted to challenge me more in those things and write a character that was more mature and who was in a different stage of life. So they’re definitely similar, I think, because of the way he developed them. The way that we worked on them was also very similar, but they’re very different; they mirror each other in a way. And also, the way Joachim works is that you get really close to something authentic, like something you really understand in a way. And it comes from the conversations we have together. So it’s like the collective will lead how the scene will go, and the dynamic between the actors will kind of dictate the dynamic between the characters. So, in that sense, we really are attached to it in a deeper way than you would go in building a character that is really different from you. It’s not that it’s me, but it does feel personal in how we explore it with Joachim. It’s something that we’ve either seen in others or in ourselves, yeah.
SC: And he has a pretty extensive rehearsal period, right? What were some of the things you learned about Nora during that period that surprised you?
RR: Oh yeah, for me, I think it became apparent then how her mental health would kind of evolve and what it would look like. We don’t say anything, but we knew it would get more specific, and to build out why her sister was so scared, it had to be very serious, and it had to have gone really far. That was in the script, but I had to get to a sense of what that means to a person and to get deeper into the empathy of going to that place where nothing really matters and you don’t see any sense of self-worth. I had to go into that space and see what specifically that means, because that couldn’t be general. You want to be very specific about that to build the relationship. And I think because we built a character who is so detailed and we talk so thoroughly about the scenes and what we’re going to express together, we really get to be free when we’re there because the platform is so thorough. So when we’re on set, we can be really free and flexible and really play around with different versions of what just occurs in the moment.
SC: And here you have that layer of playing an actress too. I love how Joachim plays with the tone here. When we meet Nora, she’s so nervous to go out on stage and goes to really comical lengths to stay off the stage. What do you think that hesitancy says about her?
RR: I really loved this for her character. I love playing the comedy in that scene physically, and I really thought it was such a good way of showing her core problem. Because she is so uncomfortable processing or being in what she is carrying from her childhood. To be a good actress and to give a good performance, you have to access things in you that you aren’t always comfortable being in your real life. So, she physically panics and runs away and tries to make people slap her out of it. And then you see that all of what she’s carrying inside is what gives her force onstage and what makes her a good performer. So, I could use that, I think. It sets up a story where she might have gotten into acting to be close to her father being a director. Then, standing her ground and refusing to do his film when he finally asks because she’s so angry with him and learning what that means to her through the character, Rachel (Elle Fanning). There are just so many layers in the story and in the character in the scenes that it’s so rich to play around with as an actress. It’s really amazing to be in a project with Joachim and his world.
SC: And Joachim described this movie as “a sad love story between a father and a daughter,” which I really liked. You talking about Nora and accessing difficult emotions through a role also made me think of her father, who feels like a mirror of her…
RR: Oh yeah, yeah.
SC: Especially in how they use art to communicate what they struggle to say to each other. How did you view their relationship to each other and that connection to their art?
RR: Yeah, I think you see Gustav being so clumsy with these two daughters and then being so sensitive and present with his actor when he’s in rehearsals with Rachel Kemp. That is a big point of sorrow for him. You see Nora being quite similar to him, actually, being so angry with him because of these sides of himself. And I think there’s so much nuance to all of the scenes that they have together where you see their conflict. But I also love the scene when you see how much they love each other. It’s just one scene where they smoke together outside. No words. They just look at each other with a lot of love and affection and admiration. You kind of see the hope of what it could be if they got past everything they’re struggling with. It’s just so short! (Laughs). We were so sad. We only have that one scene where we got to really enjoy the relationship in that way. But no, it’s such a sad story with a lot of hope, I think, that they learn to kind of see something in each other during the movie.
SC: That’s such a great moment, because even though it’s wordless, you can feel a lot of love and complicated history between them.
RR: Yeah, it is, and her laughing so hard because he’s given these horrible movies for an eight-year-old to watch, like The Piano Teacher (laughs).
SC: It’s so funny, too, that he says that that’s how he’s going to learn about women.
RR: It’s so funny. I think she loves how deranged he is in a way.
SC: I think so too. I want to get into Nora’s relationship with her sister, Agnes, too. When Nora goes back to the house after her mother’s funeral, it’s clear that Agnes has been back already and has been taking care of everything.
RR: Yeah, it’s that first time back.
SC: There are so many moments around objects in that house, but we see Nora look at an empty chair, and your eyes are just filled with so much. What did you think being back in the house and seeing that chair meant for Nora?
RR: Yeah, I think for her, coming into that house was just so uncomfortable and she knew her mother was working from that chair. That part wasn’t really the plan, but I kind of just stopped and looked at it because it contains so much history. And I think it’s also why she doesn’t want to have anything to do with cleaning up the house. She’s not interested in going in to process everything that they’ve experienced in that house. She doesn’t feel safe enough to do that or held enough by anyone to do that. So, I think that’s the moment where you can see how lonely she is and what she’s going through.
SC: That’s how I felt watching her there, especially when you consider what she might want in her life and what Agnes has. There’s also such a sweetness in how she communicates with little Erik.
RR: Yeah, I know right? I love that.
SC: It’s that shift in the story, too, when we see how Gustav has that ability to cut her so deeply when he compares her life to her mother’s, mentioning that having kids or a family will make her acting more truthful.
RR: Yeah, I think that really fueled the anger in her in hearing him talking about also being really judgmental towards actors and having all of these very strong opinions about how she should live her life and how, in contrast, he was never there. So, I think that is the moment where something turns in her and in that moment, she goes into another one of those episodes of being in grief and going into a depression because it’s just too much for her. It’s too harsh and too overwhelming for her. But yeah, I do think she underestimates her abilities to be able to be a caretaker and a mother. She has this wonderful relationship with her nephew, but I don’t think she has the self-esteem to think that she can manage to be in close relationships. She keeps running away from them because she doesn’t see that for herself.
SC: Yeah, and I wanted to ask you about her romantic relationship that we see in the movie, too. You’re reunited with your Worst Person co-star Anders Danielsen Lie here…
RR: Ah, yes!
SC: Nora and Jakob also have trouble communicating, I think, really, before and after his separation from his wife. What complexities do you think this relationship adds to our understanding of Nora?
RR: Yeah, I think because she has this low self-esteem in thinking she can’t be close to anyone, the fact that he is married is a safety net for her. She doesn’t have to be close, and she can just stay at a distance with him because he’s married. When he’s finally not, I think she’s kind of relieved, but it is painful for her that he rejects her. But I think in a way, the way I see it, it wouldn’t have worked anyway. (Laughs).
SC: (Laughs) Yeah, it was probably for the best.
RR: It really shows us, though, and you see how she struggles in relationships and being close to people. We really see that, especially in how she struggles in her relationships with men, through that relationship.
SC: We really do. But something different happens for her as we see her relationship with Agnes.
RR: That’s why I really love the scene when she says, “You were there for me. That’s why I’ve made all of these healthy choices, and that’s why I’m able to live my life in a safe way, because I had you.” And she realizes in that moment that she has been there for someone. That turns everything around. I think that is really the strongest moment in the movie for Nora.
SC: That’s my favorite scene, and it feels really cathartic to see Agnes check on her and to give her that script and to know that it’s right for her. How did you and Inga prepare for that scene, and what did it feel like to create that together between these two sisters?
RR: Yeah, I think it developed really slowly because of the way that Joachim works. He’s really good at connecting people in the process when we rehearse. And then the way we are so leaned in, and we don’t really need to show Joachim anything. He’s so sensitive and will pick up on very subtle things. So you’re able to access your authenticity within the scene. I think Inga loves to work that way, too, so it’s like you slowly get very close to each other in working that way. We just felt that it was getting more and more real being those two sisters. It still feels like it’s there between us.
SC: Oh, wow.
RR: Yeah, we still feel like we have that bond now. I think working on set with Joachim, it just gets so personal to everyone, especially when you’re working with this topic of family dynamics. It was so relatable to everyone on set, and I think we all just became this family trying to explore these topics together. It was a really great experience.
SC: I’m so glad. I also really like that Joachim doesn’t give us this big moment or scene of reconciliation between Gustav and Nora, but we know they’ve reached some sort of understanding by the end, when we see them on set. What do you think it was about that conversation with Agnes that made her say yes to him?
RR: I think that conversation made her hopeful that she can actually access a loving relationship and that she has been there for someone else. Everything changes for her. Also, reading the script and seeing that her father has actually seen something in her also shifts so much for her. You see her being in that character in the end, as herself, and with a deep understanding of what’s going on. And then, finishing that scene and seeing him discover something with her performance, she sees that they are deeply linked. It’s kind of like her anger has gone away, and she sees him as that little boy looking for his mom.
SC: That’s so beautiful. It gets at that theme of the generational wounds we pass on, too.
RR: Yeah, it’s a very moving moment. And it’s also about his hopelessness of being able to be a good father. She sees this vulnerability, and that is very, very hopeful, even though it doesn’t make things okay. What’s happened has happened, but at least she’s able to see him in a different light. That’s what I love about that last scene.
SC: It’s the perfect way to end the movie. And to wrap up our conversation, I wanted to go back to the moment you mentioned earlier, when Gustav gives Erik The Piano Teacher for his birthday. If you could gift your family a film to watch alongside Sentimental Value as a double feature, what would you pick?
RR: Oh, that’s so interesting. I actually brought my family to see Sentimental Value at Cannes, and it was a huge experience. Even though we didn’t really talk about it, something has changed.
SC: That’s amazing.
RR: Yeah, something has happened after it. So it was really great. For the other movie, though, my taste in movies is so different than my family’s. I’ve tried to show my sister some movies that I thought might be commercial enough for her to see, but she’s been like, “You’re so weird, Renate.” (Laughs). But I have watched The Holiday with my sister a lot, like every Christmas. So maybe we would gather around to watch something a bit lighter than Sentimental Value, and lighter than my movie taste (laughs)—a good blend.
SC: That’s a great pick. My sister and I also love The Holiday. It has the sibling theme too.
RR: Oh, you’re right. Yeah, it’s great. We love The Holiday.
SC: Thank you so much, Renate, for this great conversation and for this performance. It’s really stayed with me since I saw it at Cannes.
RR: I’m so happy to hear that. Thank you for your lovely questions, Sophia.
Sentimental Value is currently in theaters from NEON.
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